Just Want To Make Sure

[reddbunnz]

Of course we are not interested in underage on here. But in my Heartland/Amy story there is some interaction between Slave Amy and her sister Lou's foster daughter Georgie, who is eleven or twelve. Its not sexual but I just wanted to make sure no one has any problems with this
The first instance is when Amy is brought back to Lou's home as a naked slave, and she jumps on her boyfriend Ty:
Ty Borden didn’t know what hit him. He was at Lou’s and Peter’s Morris new home, waiting for Amy to arrive. He knew some of what had happened to Amy and he was worried. But he didn’t expect this naked whirlwind to fly into his arms, and wrap her legs around him. If he hadn’t been standing against a wall he would have been bowled over. Her deep French kisses and hands pushing into his pants shocked everyone and Lou hustled her foster daughter, Georgie who was eleven, out of the room.
“Hey, I’ve seen naked slaves before, what’s the big deal?”
“This isn’t any naked slave, this is your aunt Amy, now out of here.” Ordered her foster mother.
Next there is a second mostly explanatory scene next:
Lou had told her foster daughter about Amy and that she should be treated like a slave for now. Georgie knew about slaves of course, although only eleven years old, she had seen naked slaves on TV and in the streets, and had seen several of her foster sisters taken into slavery. In fact, she knew that three out of four kids in the foster system became slaves after they became eighteen, and that she would have probably end up as one. She had only been with Lou and Peter a few months and she loved her new home and loved learning about horses from Amy. Having to treat a someone you knew as a slave wasn’t something new to her, but she never liked it. Lou tried to explain that Amy needed to be treated like this to help her reject slavery and return to normal.

[Tealc000]

A good question to ask, but as long as the under age person isn't engaged in the sex and is just a side character to interact with should be no problem. It adds a sense of realism to the story because kids ask questions, even ones adults feel uncomfortable answering, which could be funny and embarrassing.
Imagine Amy trying explain how hyper horny she is feeling to a teenager or younger. Very awkward. The girl would have questions seeing naked slaves on tv and out in public. Having a slave right there to explain things would be priceless to the kid.

[Survivor29]

It definitely makes me uncomfortable and how does it add more than if she was just 18? It's not like her mother would be any less embarrassed and want to rush her out any less quickly.

Personally, I think it's better to just make her 18.

[orflash64]

"It definitely makes me uncomfortable and how does it add more than if she was just 18? It's not like her mother would be any less embarrassed and want to rush her out any less quickly."
How does it add more? The awkward situation , that's how. Discussing sex and other adult conversations with a 18 year old is much different and embarrassing to someone who just experiencing these emotions and feeling just recently. It embarrassing, weird and sometimes funny.
The rule is no depictions of under age people having sex, discussing it is another matter. When my daughter was growing up it was awkward trying to talk about things, but that was normal.
Do you plan to talk about sex to your kids when they are 17 1/2 years old?

[gary]

Kids in our own world are surrounded by sexual messages in the media, and they of course have easy access to pornography. It would be even more so in this Slave World, There are naked slaves out in public, and in the mass media. Their friends family's might have a slave or two, they couldn't avoid it, even in places where slavery is less popular.
Of course in this world there would be encounters we can't/shouldn't talk about. But I think we all know they would happen. But its not something we are interested in exploring.

[orflash64]

Gary, my last comment was directed to Survivor 29. I don't see the point of making the foster kid 18, for one she wouldn't be there anymore, as she is of age and wouldn't be a foster kid anymore.

[SteveBurke]

I agree with Orflash. As long as an underage character isn't involved in sexual activity it's fine.

[imreadonly2]

This is a hard NO from me. As in NO, NO, NO. No underage characters, ever, in anyway. If they are witnesses, they are involved and are seeing things that underage people should not see. Any sort of participation in this fantasy universe is wrong. ALL CHARACTERS 18 OR OLDER.

[orflash64]

It all comes down to how it is written. A sample of the chapter would be a good test of what is appropriate. Even on American Prime Time TV family shows jokes about hookers and sluts between adults and teenagers in conversation. Keep an open mind till you read what is proposed.

[gary]

Well I did put up the two scenes that involve Georgie, who would be about 12 at this time. I was a little iffy about the first scene and I did a little rewriting so that Georgie isn't there when Amy arrives, having been sent to stay with her foster grandfather Jack at Heartland Ranch. Its a minor change because its not an important part of the story. I kept the second since it gives some information about the fact that foster kids often end up as slaves. And I'm keeping it ambiguous whether Georgie is living at Lou's or she is still at Jack's. I had no real plans for any interactions between Georgie and Slave Amy anyways, beyond mentioning that Amy wants to get back to training Georgie with horse jumping.
I have made a start of a sequel, where 18 year old Georgie gets her slave chip, and maybe a slave grading, with Amy's help. I only have the vaguest idea what will happen, and not certain if the story will go anywhere. Amy may or may not want take Georgie to HCI considering her experiences. So far I've written a few paragraphs discussing slave classes for over 18's that she has to attend at school.

[SteveBurke]

To make things easy for everyone, you might attach a warning to any story that includes an underage character so that those who have issue with it can decide not to read.

[automagix12]

I second this, Steve.

My suggestion is that all authors on this website add some categorising keywords at the beginning of their stories, as can be seen with gentlemanmariner's stories.
In the question at hand, I would expect something like "All participants are at least 18 years old." (Standard disclaimer) followed by the additional sentence "With the exception of one underage character, which is not involved in any sexual activities".
The most important point to me is the set of categorising keywords, which is a usual thing in almost every story website. Tags like "slavery", "nudity", "consensual" versus "n/c" etc can be used. We have a growing stock of stories here, but novice visitors have no means to tell what type or category a story will be, except to start reading. This won't do...

(For a typical list of keywords or 'tags' see the list of tags in the photo gallery, which is just a draft, i.e. neither perfect nor complete: Link to Tag List)

[Freight_Train]

This is a hard NO from me. As in NO, NO, NO. No underage characters, ever, in anyway. If they are witnesses, they are involved and are seeing things that underage people should not see. Any sort of participation in this fantasy universe is wrong. ALL CHARACTERS 18 OR OLDER.

In a rational world, if there was a problem or question, an ISP administrator might check the story, note that any young(er) persons were only present or incidental to the story and . . . life would be good.

Sadly, we don't live in a rational world. Anyone familiar with the original Strip Search (on Yahoo) followed by SS2 and SS3 and SS4 and how they got clobbered? This kind of sad (and often irrational) story was often repeated, and there is no reason to believe things are any better today. Every so often, someone in Yahoo administration would get a burr up their rear and decide to clobber some groups. What better reason than an alleged posting of a story with someone 'underage'. It's not unique to Yahoo.

Author Lewis Carrol was lucky he didn't have to post his stories in some internet group! Can you imagine some ISP web supervisor trying to analyze Alice in Wonderland? How old was she? And she did. . . what?

Even following the advice of imreadonly2 may not be enough to completely protect a group or website.

[gary]

I've come up with this before the chapter:
Notice: There is a single underage character in this story. The character has no sexual interactions and in fact is a minor background character.

[Freight_Train]

I've come up with this before the chapter:
Notice: There is a single underage character in this story. The character has no sexual interactions and in fact is a minor background character.

That's great. But, there very fact that you have to add this should be a warning of the peril you're facing.

[Survivor29]

Yeah, I thought about something similar before because I like the school/teacher theme and like an autistic nerd I was trying to logic it out too realistically (also age of consent where I live is 16 but online you need to consider that people will read from countries all over the world), and after thinking about it I realised that you can get exactly the same thing by making it a college/finishing school/university/whatever where everyone is 18+ and you still get the same thing without skirting any dangerous lines.

And I think the same thing applies here. Just come up with some sort of solution like make slave age 21 and the characters 18. Or at least 16-17 because 11-12 is just gross and wrong for erotic stories.

[gary]

If you think that it could make trouble for the site. Its an easy edit to remove everything except the fact that she was sent to stay with Lou and Amy's grandfather. As I said before she is not more that a blip in the story. I had only included her because she is an important part of the TV Series.
I also removed the warning since the character of Georgie is no longer in the chapter.

[orflash64]

What was going to be the scene? I just imagine a teenagers curiosity with dozens and dozens of questions for Amy as she squirms to answer uncomfortable questions of what the experience is like, such as walking around in public slave naked, and such.

[SteveBurke]

I've come up with this before the chapter:
Notice: There is a single underage character in this story. The character has no sexual interactions and in fact is a minor background character.

That's great. But, there very fact that you have to add this should be a warning of the peril you're facing.

When I suggested Gary post a warning, that was for the benefit of people here, not because I think he or this site would get into any trouble for having a minor as an incidental character in a story.

[gary]

Well Orflash64, there wasn't much of Georgie in the Chapter, her biggest part was in this scene I previously posted:

Ty Borden didn’t know what hit him. He was at Lou’s and Peter’s Morris new home, waiting for Amy to arrive. He knew some of what had happened to Amy and he was worried. But he didn’t expect this naked whirlwind to fly into his arms, and wrap her legs around him. If he hadn’t been standing against a wall he would have been bowled over. Her deep French kisses and hands pushing into his pants shocked everyone and Lou hustled her foster daughter, Georgie who was eleven, out of the room.

“Hey, I’ve seen naked slaves before, what’s the big deal?”

“This isn’t any naked slave, this is your aunt Amy, now out of here.” Ordered her foster mother.

I knew at the time it was iffy, I had been thinking what would kids be thinking of Slavery. In out own world, "Nearly half of children between the ages of 9-16 experience regular exposure to sexual images" (1) And "children as young as 10 are having regular sex" (2). I gave Georgie a kind of indifferent attitude since slaves au natural are seen in public and the media.

I decided to just have Georgie sent to stay with her foster grandfather Jack, who she loves, to avoid the situation. The reason she is in the story at all is that she is a major character in the television series

Of course, having slaves and keeping them naked in public would have major effects on society. I am curious in this because I am interested on social history. With naked slaves around would woman wear clothing akin to Muslim or Victorian/Edwardian styles so as to not show off their body so to differentiate themselves from the slaves in their mist? In my own stories I have media doing the opposite and encouraging a casual attitude towards nudity. I think this is pushed by the slavery industry as a "gateway drug" to spur women's interest being slaves.

Then there was the second scene which was mostly to explore the fate of foster children:

Lou had told her foster daughter about Amy and that she should be treated like a slave for now. Georgie knew about slaves of course, although only eleven years old, she had seen naked slaves on TV and in the streets, and had seen several of her foster sisters taken into slavery. In fact, she knew that three out of four kids in the foster system became slaves after they became eighteen, and that she would have probably end up as one. She had only been with Lou and Peter a few months and she loved her new home and loved learning about horses from Amy. Having to treat a someone you knew as a slave wasn’t something new to her, but she never liked it. Lou tried to explain that Amy needed to be treated like this to help her reject slavery and return to normal.

The only other references were even more minor. Amy wanting to get back to horse jumping training with Georgie. Georgie is mentioned as brushing her horse while Lou and Peter discuss what would happen if Amy can't return to being a free woman, and Amy helping to make supper for Lou and Georgie.

So beyond the mention of foster kids and eventual slavery once they become an adult. She doesn't really add anything to the story, so removing her doesn't detract from the story either.

As for the sequel story, since 2019 the character and the actress playing her are both 18, so Georgie's own story with being chipped and graded can be written. Have no idea where to go with it, and I'm still thinking on it. One thing I can do it transfer the part about foster kids to the new story. This is what I have so far:

Georgina “Georgie” Fleming-Morris, had just turned eighteen, now that she was legally an adult meant she was moved into the more serious slave classes at school. There were instructions on a slave’s duties, a slave’s demeanor, and sexual techniques. Slaves were brought in to display slave positions, then the girls; clothed at first in skin tight yoga outfits, then eventually naked, were made to reproduce them. All the secret comparisons, and snide remarks that they had engaged in the locker room after gym classes, became even more heightened because now the slave instructor encouraged and even participated in the girls talk about each others bodies.

There were naked slaves on TV, and since some of the girl’s families had slaves, they thought they already knew everything they had to know about being a slave. Georgie knew better. Her aunt (and close friend) Amy Fleming-Borden was a slave. Not the kind of slave you see on TV, she was the slave of her husband Ty. The only thing that showed her status was a thin ring collar, barely noticeable and it usually had some kind of pendent attached so it looked like jewelry (1). Georgie knew of Amy’s struggles with slavery, and knew the good and bad of slavery.

1) 1) https://www.eternitycollars.com/necklaces/eternity and https://www.ringofsteel.net/magcollarpp.html




1) https://aifs.gov.au/publications/effect ... e-snapshot
2) https://metro.co.uk/2013/04/29/children ... x-3697942/

[Hooked6]

Just a little observation about this topic from underneath the shade tree. Gary, don't over think this. If slaves exist at all, people of all ages, walks of life, social classes and cultures have already been exposed to them. Hell, people of all ages currently see more on TV, learn about in 3rd grade or earlier as taught in school sex education classes, hear discussed in movies, at restaurants (when people actually go to them anymore) and in newspapers and magazines without the benefit of protecting their delicate sensibilities.

It is only natural in the story universe of modern slavery that questions would be asked and answers need to be given to those as they grow up and adapt to the world around them.

Too much explanation or detail by an author trying to "cover all your bases" trying to be politically correct can ruin a perfectly fine story, not to mention giving you a stomach ulcer.

You are a responsible writer and Georgie it would seem, plays a small part in your story which is not egregiously obscene. As they say in New York, "Don't worry about it." Write what feels right to you. Your fair disclosure about content in any chapters that might offend should give ample warning to those "with delicate sensibilities" that need protecting from everything they don't agree with.

Just some thoughts as I sit in the shade drinking Kentucky bourbon watching the sun go down.

Hooked6
This author's attorneys have advised that the opinions expressed in the above statement do not represent any living person on any planet or in any dimension and therefore cannot be held responsible for unintended consequences. The author is a penniless pauper with no visible means of support so litigious action will benefit no one except the said attorneys mentioned above.

[Fixitman8267]

Author Lewis Carrol was lucky he didn't have to post his stories in some internet group! Can you imagine some ISP web supervisor trying to analyze Alice in Wonderland? How old was she? And she did. . . what?

In the 1865 version, Alice admits that she is 7-years-old. In the sequel, she says that she is 7 1/2. (I Googled it) I've only read the modern version and watched the modern movies and Alice appears to be between 17 and 19 years old. As for what a 7-year-old is doing in Wonderland in 1865... Do I really want to know? Some laws didn't exist back then.

[Panchiman]

Sorry if I'm late to the discussion. Obviously minors should not be involved in sexual practices. But I also feel that in these worlds where slavery is legal and slaves are naked, for that child seeing naked slaves would be something normal and not at all sexual, even treating them as inferior. It gives more realism to that world, I feel that sometimes the stories forget about those types of aspects such as the existence of children or the need to go to the bathroom.
But I understand that not including them is the safest option to prevent the stories from being censored.

[Sissy]

English is not my native language, so I use Google translator. Therefore, slaves should not be dressed in clothes that are humiliating. For example, a latex, spandex dress with a short and loose skirt an inch below the pussy with sheer inserts in interesting places. panties with dildos and other stimulants for arousal and or punishment? high-heeled shoes or boots...

[GatewayGuy]

They're fictional characters, so I don't particularly care, but if you're trying to build a realistic world, and have people in public, not mentioning teens or children at all, doesn't make the world feel entirely real. I don't think they should be main characters, but in a real world, they are going to exist, see, interact with and potentially engage in various activities, so I say include it, if it makes sense for the story.